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Last Updated: 2 Apr 2018 - 8:45:17 PM |
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR: VETS GRADING
By email to IrishCycling.com
10 Apr 2008,
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Response (10 Apr)
Hi Gerald,
We all acknowledge the vast difference re ability etc and the veterans. Here in the North we are addressing the problem with introducing as many separate races as possible.
The "Supervets" go off in the A race and are well capable of competing in these. Other vets go in the B race with newcomers, 3rd cats and juniors who have not yet reached the top level of juniors like Bennett, Downey,Wilson et al.
I must disagree with your comment "to swell the coffers of the organising club". Having helped organise races for countless years I can assure you that very few races make money. A club is lucky to break even and usually loses money on race promotions - Ambulance, comms fees, prize money etc. Unless a promoter receives huge sponsorship the event costs the club money.
I envy the Triathatlon and Duathalon groups who attract hughe numbers but perhaps it is something to do with the variety of sports involved and the unique challenge these events offer. Re Youth riders you will see Cycling Ulster have a team this weekend at the Future Revolution International in Wales and are doing their utmost to encourage Youth participation in cycling - and not just at competitive level.
I am now heading out to check the Time Trial course for tonight's Dave Kane TT League event. I expect up to 100 entries from 14 year olds to 70 year olds. No chance of anyone getting dropped. It's a 10 mile TT. Riders will be competing against their own PB's.
I appreciate your concerns but you must understand we are trying to do something about this "problem".
Tommy Lamb
Chairman
Cycling Ulster
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Response by Gerald Francis (10 Apr)
Can i just add my half cents worth to this debate and say that having gone through the experience of signing on for vets races and being blown out after two miles by either very fast juniors or vets that have been racing for most of their lives i was left with the dilemma of weather to continue cycling or just pack it up all together.
I was then advised by a fellow vet to join the IVCA(Irish Veterans Cycling Association).This is where true vets race based on ability where irrespective of your age(provided you over 40) everybody has an even chance of firstly competing and secondly winning a race.
I have come across countless of fellas who are just to fast to go touring and just not able to hold on for those blistering first few miles in an open race.
Cycling Ireland have no interest in these people and of course very few will offer assistance to these cyclist as some of them turn out week in and week out to swell the coffers of the organising club.There can be no enjoyment or pleasure being dropped week in and week out,and yet year in and year out this continues to happen.
Has anyone in the cycling fraternity ever noticed how the numbers in Triathlons and Duathlons are increasing?thats because all abilities are catered for.There is a Triathlon club in the west of Ireland who have members as young as 8 years old.What do Cycling Ireland do to encourage more people to take up cycling?
In closing let me say to any vet that would like to start racing or returning to racing check out the
IVCA,they are a lot more structured,organised and have a lot better insurance scheme than Cycling Ireland and the racing is a lot safer.
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Response by Tommy Lamb (8 Apr)
In response to Liam's recent letter the Vets Grading Motion was proposed and carried at the 2007 Cycling Ireland AGM. If it is not implemented the blame must lie on shoulders of Cycling Ireland. I have yet to see a veteran with either V1, V2 OR V3 on their licence.
Here in the North we keep a close eye on points gained by all Cycling Ulster veterans. At the weekend Gordon Scott (East Antrim)increased his points to 13 therefore moving him up the ladder. I notice Martin O'Loughlin has 36 points this year. This must surely classify him as V1. It is up to the promoters to take this into account when handicapping races.
We can only make race organisers aware of the quality of these veterans. It is up to them to use this information to make the racing a bit more interesting.
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Reply from Original Writer (7 Apr)
Following a letter to your site a few weeks ago re. vets grading I got a good reply from Tommy Lamb explaining how it would work.
However any races I have attended, either as a rider or spectator, since, has never had any vets grading to my knowledge.
We have the national vets champion riding away from the line at the start and winning by minutes in most of these races.
Now while I have 100% respect for Martin and his ability on a bike and only wish I was half as strong as he is I really think the vets not being graded is doing nothing for cycling.
Riders, regardless of ability, can only ride the races that are provided so it really is down to the people in control of cycling to change the system and take advantage of the huge interest and growth that is taking place around the country.
Go raibh maith agat,
Liam
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Reader response (28 Feb)
Dear Editor,
I read with interest your proposal on grading the veterans into 3 categories which I think is an excellent idea, as this will encourage vets of all ages, abilities and ‘shapes and sizes’ to compete. As someone who raced in the 80’s and returned to some modest racing a few years ago I noticed the riders competing in the Vets, Senior C and Junior category had very mixed ability , with some leisure type vets trying to compete with very fit , national standard Juniors. The net results was a line out from the start, most of the vets out the back , and the next 20 miles was a ‘bit n bit’ session between a few good juniors and a few very strong vets, benefiting neither !
To encourage people to race , the association needs to do a few things; Firstly have a race locally that riders don’t have to travel huge distances to, have a category for all abilities and encourage the riders to finish the race .This could be achieved as follows;
- Have a race in each province every Sunday
- All races to be run on a handicap basis , giving everybody a chance to compete, if only for the first 20 miles
- Have numerous categories , such as V1,V2,V3,C1,C2,C3 etc
- Give prizes to all of these to encourage them to finish, or else give prizes to the first 20 over the line. Why would the ‘bunch ‘ just ride to the finish when the break is gone ?
As part of my short return some years ago I competed in some Triathlons on a relay basis doing the cycle. The Cycle racing fraternity could learn from this as in many of the triathlons there were prizes for over 20’s , over 35’s , over 50’s etc , encouraging all competitors to enjoy the race.
If Cycling is to grow its numbers, it needs to fundamentally change its approach to the race structure, the days of the first 6 across the line and the prizes presented on the bonnet of a car will not enable growth of competitors.
Regards
Claude Costelloe - Limerick
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Reply: By Tommy Lamb (25 Feb)
The Veterans will be graded V1,V2 and V3 in accordance with the rules set out below. They are the same as the Senior system of upgrading.
However it should be noted that the rationale behind the grading of veterans was to give the handicappers an idea on the strengths of various riders. It therefore does not necessarily follow that a V1 will automatically go into the S1 group. But he certainly should not be going off with S3's and 1st year Juniors or vets in the 50 or 60 plus age group.
Liam, if you have any queries give me a ring on 02894453203 or 07799053205
(a) Seniors on applying for their first veterans licence will be issued with a Veterans category (V1, V2, V3) in line with their most recent Senior category. However this can be appealed under rule T3.10 below.
(b) Veteran 3's on amassing 10 points will be upgraded to Senior 2's.
(c) Veteran 2's on amassing 15 points in a calendar year will be upgraded to Veteran 1's.
(d) Veteran 2's with less than 15 points at year-end carry 50% of total obtained, rounded down, to next year.
(e) Veteran 1's on the first full year following their upgrade, and each year thereafter, must obtain 6 points, or revert back to Veteran 2 with the points obtained in their last year as a Veteran 1 rider.
(f) Veteran 2's who obtain 5 points or less in a calendar year may revert to Veteran 3's.
Is mise le meas
Tommy Lamb
Cycling Ulster
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LETTERS TO THE EDITOR: VETS GRADING:
Original Letter (25 Feb)
Could you shed any light on the situation of vets grading for 2008?
Since the Cycling Ireland AGM last year when this was agreed I have in vain tried to get information from Cycling Ireland, does anyone ever answer a phone or get back to you when they say they will in that office!!!
Is mise le meas,
Liam Mac Siúrdáin
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If any of our visitors to IrishCycling.com can help to clarify the situation, please email us at letters2008@irishcycling.com.
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